Is the outcome determined when the button is pressed to initiate the spin sequence, or
is the outcome determined at some later time after the reels have started spinning?
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- You can talk to the Slot Machine Brothers and check on the machine near them to play the slot machine, with a chance to win a PSI Caramel, a Chick, a Can of fruit juice, or a Skip Sandwich. Then keep going west from the Slot Machine Brothers.
- Free Earthbound Slot Machine Brothers Spins: Available after deposit bonus is redeemed/lost, credited as £2 bonus. MONOPOLY Live only. 1x wagering and Max bonus bet of £5 applies to winnings, 7 days to accept & 7 days to complete wagering, maximum withdrawal from winnings Earthbound Slot Machine Brothers is £200.
When I use the button to stop the reels, am I getting a different outcome than I would have gotten had I let the reels stop on their own?
I am not asking if I am changing my chances of a win. I know that stopping the reels early has zero effect on that. I'm just curious if the outcome is determined at the initiation, which would mean the outcome is the exact same whether or not I stop the reels early, or if the outcome is determined at some later point, which might mean I get a different outcome depending on when I stop the reels.
When I use the button to stop the reels, am I getting a different outcome than I would have gotten had I let the reels stop on their own?
No. The moment you hit the button to start the game, the random numbers are chosen... the spinning of the wheels is just to build excitement.. you are not changing the final result by hitting the button a second time to stop the wheels.
No. The moment you hit the button to start the game, the random numbers are chosen... the spinning of the wheels is just to build excitement.. you are not changing the final result by hitting the button a second time to stop the wheels.
Not to be argumentative but because I know slot machines don't always do this let me state:
Some slots are affected by the second hit that stops the reels spinning.
And some don't matter.
You can tell if the reels are a 'slower' spin and when you stop the machine because something passes by if that symbol stays on the machine then you definitely had an effect by stopping the machine.
There are other machines where when you stop the reels at the symbol you see, either a) the symbol completely disappears mysteriously or b) the reels pick up speed on the second push so you miss the symbol anyway. These machines do not have any decision made when you push the button a second time.
I know a lot of people are going to jump on me for this but I am just annoyed at all the people who spout they know these machines when I have seen the evidence they are wrong. So go ahead, guys and beat me up on this.
I know a lot of people are going to jump on me for this but I am just annoyed at all the people who spout they know these machines when I have seen the evidence they are wrong. So go ahead, guys and beat me up on this.
I am not going to jump on you but I will say that I have programmed games for many large slot machine manufacturers and that I haven't seen one in the last 15 years where stopping the reels early gives a different result.
Not to be argumentative but because I know slot machines don't always do this let me state:
Some slots are affected by the second hit that stops the reels spinning.
And some don't matter.
You can tell if the reels are a 'slower' spin and when you stop the machine because something passes by if that symbol stays on the machine then you definitely had an effect by stopping the machine.
There are other machines where when you stop the reels at the symbol you see, either a) the symbol completely disappears mysteriously or b) the reels pick up speed on the second push so you miss the symbol anyway. These machines do not have any decision made when you push the button a second time.
I know a lot of people are going to jump on me for this but I am just annoyed at all the people who spout they know these machines when I have seen the evidence they are wrong. So go ahead, guys and beat me up on this.
You're wrong. You thinking you see something doesn't make it true. Even when you stop the reels, it still goes to a predetermined outcome. You cannot cause it to win by stopping reels when it wasn't going to.
ZCore13
You're wrong. You thinking you see something doesn't make it true. Even when you stop the reels, it still goes to a predetermined outcome. You cannot cause it to win by stopping reels when it wasn't going to.
ZCore13
So if I find a slot machine where I can provide video evidence this is true? I am so confident I can prove this I will go with a video phone (and hoping the casino doesn't stop me) show that I am not full of crap.
Then when everyone sees it what will you say? Just because everyone sees it does not make it true?
Also if you win free spins on a bonus, do you win a predetermined amount of money or is every spin a new random event?
Are the answers to these questions determined by the slot manufacture or the state gaming commission?
Are all those people who pull their slot card out of the machine when they hit a bonus, wasting their time trying to keep the casino from knowing about their winnings?
Please post the video as soon as you get it.You should be able to put the phone in your pocket and record with out any one noticing.
Certainly. I will be in AC near the end of the week.
Are the amount of the bonus win also determined at the time the spin button is pressed? Lets says I have the choice of choosing A, B or C, will I win $10 no matter which letter I choose or does A=5, B=10, or C=20 and my choice determines the amount of the win.
Also if you win free spins on a bonus, do you win a predetermined amount of money or is every spin a new random event?
Are the answers to these questions determined by the slot manufacture or the state gaming commission?
Are all those people who pull their slot card out of the machine when they hit a bonus, wasting their time trying to keep the casino from knowing about their winnings?
I *believe* the answers are as follows (but not 100% sure):
The amount of the bonus win is NOT determined at the time of the spin (but whether you line up the symbols to get a bonus round is). I saw a Wiz article where he believed that if you made a choice in the bonus game and then it showed you the results from the other options afterwards, that it is a fair game and that your choice makes a difference in how much you win. If it doesn't show you the options that you didn't pick.. then it very well might be pre-determined.
I think every spin is a new random event in the bonus rounds as well.. although the reels might be different than the regular game (WMS reels are definitely different)
I would say that the answers to these questions are determined by the slot manufacturer, however a game wouldn't be approved by state gaming commission if it didn't meet minimum standards for payback etc.
From reading on here, I believe it used to be that removing your card kept winnings from being recorded, but that has all changed now.
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| EarthBound |
|---|
Also known as: Mother 2: Maza Tsu Gigu no Gyakushu (JP) This game has unused enemies. This game has a prerelease article |
EarthBound is Shigesato Itoi's charming, cult-hit RPG about aliens, teenagers, and psychic powers.
| To do: Various unused text, documented in Mato's Legends of Localization book; some is exclusive to the Japanese version. |
- 4Unused Items
- 5Unused Music
- 6Copy Protection
- 8Revisional Differences
Sub-Pages
| To do: See any differences between MOTHER 1+2 and MOTHER 2. |
| Regional Differences The amount of regional changes done for this game is quite a feat. |
Using Game Genie codes, severe glitching, or an IPS patch, three debug menus can be found in the game:
| In-Game Debug Menu TKSyZyUTI. |
| Boot-Up Debug Menu APPLE. |
| Battle Debug Menu Pretty nice, except there's no escape. |
Unused Graphics
All of the other Chosen Four characters have this animation, but Poo is the only one who doesn't actually use it. Ness and Paula jump during their name entry screen animations, and Jeff jumps over the fence when he's escaping from his boarding school. The developers probably created the jumping sprites for all four, just in case.
Variations of the Chosen Four's normal ghost sprites, plus one for Everdred. The variations of the Chosen Four's ghost sprites are exactly like the regular jumping sprites except for the transparency, ghostly trail, and halo; they could just be jumping.
As for Everdred, the game leaves it unclear as to whether he died following your encounter in Fourside, but this sprite would indicate that he did. Alternatively, Everdred might have been scheduled to join your party at some point, as every other ghost sprite is based on a party member.
Four sprites of King where you can obviously tell he's supposed to be climbing a rope or a ladder. This would suggest two things: either King was supposed to stay with you longer in the game, or Ness' original travels through Onett were supposed to include something to climb. However, it could be that these were created just in case they needed to be used...although even if you use the various debug menus to put King in your party and travel to places he shouldn't be, these graphics still won't show.
Since there are no 'sleeping' sprites for the other characters, these were probably meant to be used in special sequences early in the game, possibly waking up from Paula's psychic calls. Alternately, Ness may have been intended to be asleep when he first arrived in Magicant, as he is completely naked except for his cap during the Magicant portion of Mother 2.
Found in the files of the Japanese version is this X in a rectangle outline. The American version replaced this with the sprite below.
Ness' mother sitting, a better (but unused) alternative to walking around in random directions. May have also been meant for the prayer sequence involving Ness' family.
Ness and Paula sitting with their eyes closed. Since there is no Jeff or Poo equivalent, they were probably meant to be used in an event before Paula contacts Jeff, most likely when the two wake up following the zombie ambush.
This sprite appears when you talk to Jackie from above, but since that is impossible during normal gameplay, it goes unused.
A capsule that looks exactly like the one containing Starman Jr. in EarthBound Beginnings. This is found among the enemy-out-of-battle sprites, so it was probably supposed to be used as an alternative to the odd octahedrons used to represent enemies in the last areas of the game.
It could also have been used as the out-of-battle sprite of Starman Jr. and/or Starman Deluxe.
Probably just an asset they put in there in case they needed one, and it turned out they didn't.
'Puu Puu' (fart noise) is the sound the Mr. Saturns make in Japanese, so this sprite was likely meant to appear in Saturn Valley while the Mr. Saturns were walking around.
A tiny Ness posing and a tiny photographer hanging around. Clearly meant for the Lost Underworld.
A tiny Escargo Express guy, also clearly meant for the Lost Underworld.
A flag, probably meant to be used as decoration somewhere, though it doesn't seem to fit anywhere in the game.
A beating heart. Maybe some romance sequences were planned but didn't make it in.
A Sanchez brother cheering, meant for when you won something in the slot machine game.
Partially unused. In Onett, Frank's steam-powered robot, the Frankystein Mark II, is partially obscured by a tree on the field. When you defeat it, it disappears on the spot it stood behind the tree, thus rendering about half of its overworld sprite unused.
Used, but difficult to see. The eels are almost never seen outside of the water in Deep Darkness, the only area in which they appear. They can be coaxed out of the water, but doing so is very difficult, can only be done in one or two places, and you have to be doing so intentionally.
King as a puppy is seen in the cutscene after obtaining the Eight Melodies at Fire Spring. The problem is, puppy King never moves up or down; he only moves sideways in a northeasterly direction and stops.
This small bird thing... is just never seen, ever. It looks like it could have served a use pretty much anywhere. It is similar to the sparrows found in Mother 3.
Venus has two additional strange animation frames she never uses in either of her performances. Possibly intended to be used for her performance with the Runaway Five.
The bus driver has an additional frame facing right/left, possibly intended for a stopped bus facing north/south which never happens.
Whatever this EarthBound Beginnings-esque box was intended for, it isn't used.
Poo's Master cannot be talked to from above at any point without hacking, as he never leaves his normal spot.
Unused Enemy
The 'Crooked Cop' or 'ダーティコップ' (literally, 'Dirty Cop') is identical to Captain Strong in every way but name. This may have been an earlier version of him.
There is also a 'Magic Butterfly' enemy, accessible by using battle formation 480. It has no attacks or graphics.
Unused Items
Video Relaxant
The item with hex number CB goes unused. It does nothing when used, and the in-game description is an apt 'What the hey is this?' The Japanese version calls it 'Video Drug', but has basically the same description.
Temporary Goods
Unlike the Video Relaxant, the Temporary Goods has a clear description: 'A key given to you by a maid who works at the Monotoli building.' This indicates that Electra was supposed to give you the 'key' in exchange for the Yogurt Dispenser, and this would have unlocked the second elevator (which is inaccessible beforehand) to access the path that leads to Monotoli himself; in-game, however, the second elevator is unlocked once Electra takes the Yogurt Dispenser.
Putting the item in your inventory before going into the building does nothing, and no other unused text correlates to the item.
Unused Music
Entirely Unused
An unused version of the 'No Sounds' variation of the completed Sound Stone, never played because the game exits the Sound Stone after the melody finishes. It can be heard by using Pro Action Replay codes C1F04ABD 80214090 at the File Select screen.
A scary-sounding dungeon theme, which, like some other tracks, is a remix of a theme used in Mother (in areas such as Ninten's basement or the Underground Stream in Magicant).
This short, non-looping variant of Pokey's theme is never used or really needed. The engine-like noise used for the first few seconds would suggest it was meant for when he steals Monotoli's helicopter, or possibly an unmade cutscene where Pokey crashes it in the Deep Darkness and removes the engine, or during the post-credit cutscene as a reminder that Pokey is still inside of the time-traveling spider mech and then escapes to a different era after his brother Picky wonders where he went.
A strange rumbling, then an electronic alert sound playing. Sounds like it was supposed to play when the Sky Runner would be damaged somehow, but in all the Sky Runner events when it crashes, it just plays the standard crashing sound (value 6E).
Partially Unused
| To do: Supposedly part of 'the battle intro music' is unused |
In the game's intro, this plays before transitioning to a different track. This skips the last 15 seconds of the song.
The track used when Ness exits Magicant is cut off around the 23-second mark, leaving 15 seconds unheard in-game.
When Tessie leaves the map on the opposite side of the Winters bank, a few seconds get cut off (the later visit's version more so than the first one). The music then segues into a permanent loop of the standard Tessie travel section of the music with different instrumentation.
The Winters intro isn't intended to be played past a certain point, but if it does, all channels but one cut out at minimum volume and the music eventually loops regardless; presumably, this intro is just a quick hack of the Snowman theme normally used in the boarding school.
Leftover Music Data
| To do: There are more of these in the game's data. Specifically, in the music for a few battle themes. |
Certain music tracks contain data that never gets played. Often, these unused portions are earlier drafts of the music in which they reside.
This would seem to indicate that the attract mode music was initially going to head in a different direction or have a different transitional section but was ultimately replaced.
An unused section of the Belch battle music, probably an idea for an alternate transition into the repeat. Note that it sounds a lot like the main theme for Super Mario Bros.
A fast set of drums found in the file for Threed's 'happy' music. It's slightly different from the fast drums used in the bridge of this song, so this may have been temporary.
A small beat meant for Fourside which seems to indicate it was to have a simpler bridge at some point before getting replaced with a better one.
Seems to be a higher-pitched early draft of the Deep Darkness music, later replaced by the lower-pitched version.
A more complete idea that was never used in-game was this section of music from Magicant. It has the same quirky sound and feel of the final track, but a completely different melody.
This sounds like a potential ending for the music 'Good Friends Bad Friends', the pre-credits sequence where the cast of the game appears. It was likely not used due to it being very brief and unsatisfying, and hence requiring the final version's ending to be rewritten.
The end credits music has an unused section that initializes all the instruments, indicating that it was used at the beginning, and plays the first three notes of the melody leading into the music. In the final, this was replaced with a more anticipatory section that fades in and builds up musically to match the cinematic of the scene.
Also in the credits music is an unused section that seems to be nothing more than the string section of a portion of the music, however, the chord progression used is slightly different from the final. This would indicate that the music may have been slightly different there as the composer was trying different ideas.
Copy Protection
| This needs some investigation. Discuss ideas and findings on the talk page. Specifically: Is any of this in the Virtual Console rerelease? |
EarthBound is surprisingly heavy on anti-piracy measures, some of which are quite fiendish. None of this affects emulator users, both because the protection was targeted at copiers and because most copies of the ROM circulating the internet have these routines disabled.
Layer One - Region Protection
The first layer is pretty simple: it checks the console's PPU to make sure you're not running a PAL (Europe, Australia) SNES. If you are, it throws up this error message and freezes.
Layer Two - SRAM Check
| EarthBound |
|---|
This is the first real barrier against pirates. A subroutine at $C0A11C, called at startup, checks that there's only 8KB of SRAM (cartridge copiers, by their nature, tend to have more). If there's more than 8KB, then the game gives you this stern warning and freezes.
In addition, Movement Script 1 calls a subroutine at $C1FFD3 which takes a checksum of the code at $C0A11C-$C0A150. If there are any alterations to that memory range, a non-zero value is stored to $7EB539, bringing up yet another copyright infringement screen.
Layer Three - Increased Encounters
A third, far more subtle layer of protection is activated if the game detects that the previous layers have been disabled. There's a check at $C0281A to see if $7EB539 is zero. If it isn't, random encounters are ramped up to absurd levels to make the game borderline unplayable. Some areas even have enemies that aren't supposed to be in those locations, like Spiteful Crows in the Pyramid.
Enemies in the usually enemy-free Saturn Valley. (Mad Duck appears in this location in a normal game as well, though.)
Dense enemy presence in Scaraba
Much more mushrooms and sprouts than usual
A few too many sprouts
Eight enemies visible in Magicant
...Crows in the Pyramid?
In addition, there are a few locations that try and spawn so many enemies that the game outright crashes. These areas are usually locations which are freed from evil, such as Threed and the Threed tunnel, but may also include unexpected places, such as the Topolla Theater main office. If the game doesn't crash, there's a high chance that the player will see extremely unusual enemies spawn, such as enemies which appear as NPCs or player characters and use garbage values for items and Experience Points (giving things like Backstage Passes and 3,000,000+ Exp.), common enemies like Ramblin' Evil Mushrooms and Black Antoids which act like bosses, and even blank NPCs which can't be interacted with in any way! The glitched enemies usually can't be fought and will crash the game in a number of ways if confronted, but using an 'auto-win every fight' code will let the player win, regardless.
Layer Four - Unknown
There's another SRAM checker at $C08391. Not quite sure what it does yet, but it's called six times during the game.
Layer Five - The Grand Finale
And finally, should you brave everything else, there's one final, devious checksum routine at $C3FDC5, checking $C0A11C-$C0A150 to see if all the previous layers had been defeated, which is triggered after Porky/Pokey turns off the Devil's Machine and insults Giygas. If the game detects anything awry, it hangs and deletes your save files.
Notes
For those who'd like to see the effects in action, here are some cheat codes to activate the anti-piracy effects without having to delve into a hex editor.
Use this code to increase the encounter rate:
| Action Replay | C0281D80 |
|---|---|
| Game Genie | 6D4F-7704 |
If the above code freezes the game, use this code too:
| Action Replay | C0281E1A |
|---|---|
| Game Genie | FC4F-7764 |
This code activates the final save wipe at the end of the game:
| Action Replay | C3FDDAD0 |
|---|---|
| Game Genie | 2DE2-546E |
Naturally, you should back up your SRAM first when attempting this.
Slot Machine Brothers Earthbound Spin Offs
Unused Event
Normally when battling the Clumsy Robot, you have already helped out the Runaway Five with their debt. At the end of the Clumsy Robot battle, they appear, thus ending the fight. With the assistance of the walk-through-walls cheat, you can bypass the required event of helping the Runaway Five and see an alternate ending: the Clumsy Robot spews out smoke, after which the party is teleported outside the Monotoli building.
Revisional Differences
Japanese Text Changes
From MOTHER 1+2 onward, MOTHER 2 received minor text changes across various revisions. Most of these changes were made to comply with CERO.
Changes in all revisions
- Pokey's mom originally refers to Buzz Buzz as a 'pesky toilet fly.' The word 'toilet' was removed in future releases.
- A sign in Onett's hospital originally advertises a Gravestone Burial Sale for people that pass away in the hospital. In future releases, the sign states that the hospital is not holding a Gravestone Burial Sale.
- After Paula is rescued, a boy in Twoson originally states that Paula kicked her kidnapper in the balls. 'Balls' was changed to 'vital spot' in MOTHER 1+2 and the Super Smash Bros. Brawl demo, and was changed to 'crotch' in the Virtual Console releases.
- A sign in Threed originally states that players should take a break every two hours. In future releases, this was changed to one hour. However, Ness' father calls every two hours in all releases.
- When an announcer introduces Venus in Fourside's theater, he originally says, 'Sing and kill me!' In future releases, this was changed to 'Sing and love me!'
- When Tony asks for the player's name, he originally refers to 'the one holding the controller.' In future releases, he refers to 'the one playing this game' instead.
- A man in Scaraba originally states that Pokey 'crapped on the ground.' In future releases, this was changed to 'did his business'. A similar change was made in EarthBound.
- When Master Barf challenges the party, he originally says, 'Get covered in puke and die!' In MOTHER 1+2 and the Super Smash Bros. Brawl demo, this was changed to 'Suffer until you vomit!' The Virtual Console releases changed this to 'Get covered in me and suffer!'
- Originally, the hint man in Summers accidentally refers to the Stoic Club as a strip club. In future releases, 'strip' was changed to 'stri--.'
Changes in most revisions
- A mole in Onett originally explains that the TV screen will change colors when you touch an enemy. In MOTHER 1+2, the word 'TV' is removed, while the Virtual Console releases also modify the line.
- After Ness defeats the punks in Onett, the mayor originally states that Ness spit on the bullies and made them wet their pants. This part of the mayor's dialogue was removed in MOTHER 1+2, and the line was further modified in the Virtual Console releases.
- A vendor in Twoson's park originally states that flies swarm on his goods, giving them a nice flavor. In MOTHER 1+2, he simply states that his food attracts flies, while the Virtual Console releases state that his goods' flavor attracts flies.
Changes only in MOTHER 1+2
- A librarian in Onett originally explains that the Town Map can be pulled up with the X Button. In MOTHER 1+2, she vaguely references the Start Button instead.
- Two typos were corrected.
- Originally, a newspaper headline in Threed mistakenly says that the zombies have left Twoson instead of Threed. This was fixed in MOTHER 1+2.
PSI Animations
Both the Wii U Virtual Console and SNES Classic re-releases of Mother 2 and EarthBound add a blur effect to several of the flashier PSI animations, such as PSI Rockin'. This is standard policy for Virtual Console games, with the idea being to reduce the risk of causing seizures. Because the blur effect is applied in real-time, it does, however, have the peculiar side effect of the game blurring whenever any rapid full-screen animations occur (such as when taking mortal damage or using PSI Teleport), or not appearing when it reasonably should.
Cutscene Changes
In the SNES Classic version, the flashes before the Carpainter battle and during the robot surgery were toned down.
| The Mother/EarthBound series | |
|---|---|
| NES | EarthBound Beginnings |
| SNES | EarthBound (Localization Prototype) |
| Game Boy Advance | Mother 1+2 • Mother 3 |